Trimmed down kits

3) Rebelling against the old "hair metal" large kits, just like punk did back in its day against classic and prog-rock "dinosaurs"

Interesting how everything old is new again. Heck, even I've been playing a four-piece recently!

Yes, but this started in 1991/1992.

When Nirvana got big, and Dave Grohl had the 4 pc. you saw tons and tons of drummers scale down their kits to a 4 pc.

And that was over 20 years ago.

I don't really get the OP's point. It's not a new thing, it's been going on for a while.

Working in drum shops from the late 80's into the early 90's, it was tough because around 92, suddenly no one wanted to buy a multi-tom kit anymore.

I imagine many people out there rocking the 1 up set up are doing so because that was the popular set up in the 90's, so it's what they grew up with.

In my humble opinion, It's the people who are willing to set up a 2nd rack tom are the ones rebelling against the trend. lol
 
trend (trɛnd) noun
1. general tendency or direction
2. fashion; mode

Predicting fashion (in drums or anything else) 10 years from now would be difficult. For example, none of us would have realized cutoff jean shorts, flip flops, skinny jeans or anything else would be a 'trend' now.

But a classy black suit is just that, and remains in fashion circles for decades. No trend there. The 4-piece is the classy black suit.
 
I like small kits, and very rarely use more than five myself. But the gutsier drummers will cut down on the amount of cymbals. If you see a guy with hi-hats and a ride cymbal he also crashes on, then that's sayin' somethin'!

I'm playing tomorrow with a 4 piece kit w/ 13/16 concert toms, one ride, hats and one crash (gotta have the crash man). It does feel gutsy, but I played the sets in practice with this set-up.
 
I just saw Jane's Addiction and the drummer had one up one down with hats, a ride and one crash. He smoked that kit like I haven't seen since I first saw Gergo Borlai make sounds from a four piece kit that is truly monster.
 
Nonsense. The creative player is exactly who SHOULD have the large kit.

But why do people need rows of toms? Two up/Two down is reasonable, but after you go beyond that, I just fail to see the point. Having more than you need does not inspire creativity... Imo, of course.
 
less is more.
I find its easy to over do drums with alot of stuff on the kit.

A local drummer comes to mind who has a rack for his huge set, 7 toms, 9 crashes, the rack is 13 feet long when straitened out, its insane to have your own trailer to haul 1 drum set around for local shows lol.
I myself have been playin some monster setups that were just to crazy to really haul to a show as well and even found myself back down to the 1 up 1 down setup with 2 crashes,ride and hats, easy to haul, and its fun to play, im not worried about that roll on 5 toms and screwing it up hitting a rim anymore thank god lol

most of the best drummers in the 60-70s all used 1 up 1 down or 1 up 2 down and they played the hell out of them better than most can play with 5 toms
 
But why do people need rows of toms? Two up/Two down is reasonable, but after you go beyond that, I just fail to see the point. Having more than you need does not inspire creativity... Imo, of course.

4 toms is reasonable, but it certainly does not cover all generes of music. Some drummers like to have a full range from very high, to very low in their kit. That can require toms ranging all the way from 8 to 18" in diameter. Some also like to go a step further and add octobans to their kit. Now they have an even greater range of sound in their kit. Does it inspire creativity? Well, not really. No more than someone with a smaller kit. The size of your kit does not determine the creativity of the playing. Someone with a really small 4 piece kit could be as equally creative as someone with a mega monster kit. Creativity is determined by the player.

Take someone like Benny Greb and pit him against Mike Mangini. One has a relatively small 1 up 2 down kit and the other has a 5 up 3 down kit with 4 bass drums, octobans, electronic drums, and more cymbals than 3 drummers can swing a stick at. Would you say one is more creative than the other based on their kit size? I would say that if you threw both of them behind that stupid Sponge Bob drum kit they would both make your jaw drop.
 
But why do people need rows of toms? Two up/Two down is reasonable, but after you go beyond that, I just fail to see the point. Having more than you need does not inspire creativity... Imo, of course.

I think it's easier to be more rhythmically and musically creative when I don't have a ton of kit parts to think about. Drumming typically just doesn't use most of that stuff, and I don't want to have something in my way if I'm only going to think of a tasteful use for it once every few songs. When I play on a 5 piece, I can tell that I'm thinking about ways I might incorporate the "new" tom I'm not used to. When I take away all the high toms and work with less, I'm thinking about the rhythms and how to apply them to the smaller kit. It takes a lot more creativeness out of me to play with less, and things turn out more interesting.

My two toms to me are a means to two categories of sounds. On my slight left and in front of me is the shorter, higher, more contrast-ed and punchy notes. On my low right is my rumble and atmosphere and power. Each of those toms has hundreds of potential sounds in it that change with velocity, where I hit, how I hit, and with what I hit them.... Having a ton of intervals between that just doesn't make a lot of sense to my head.
 
, I just fail to see the point.

See what's happening here mate?

Having more than you need does not inspire creativity....

More than who needs, though? Does a guy like Bozzio have more than HE needs? Or just more than YOU think is required? What about Peart, or Carey, or Copeland or any other player who sees fit to break the 1 up, 1 down mold? You're letting your expectations and requirements dictate what's appropriate for someone else to express themselves creatively, mate. One size never fits all.....and it's never more evident then in artistic endeavours.

The big kits/small kit debate is a fools errand. It it's a silly argument that hold no weight and shows little thought has been put into it. Whatever side of the fence you lean on, there is just way too many examples to the contrary. Creativity can be expressed on a single drum, a small kit or with 15 tom toms and 30 cymbals. The only limitations are the player.......not the size of his kit.



less is more.

Unless more is required........or even desired.
 
Does a guy like Bozzio have more than HE needs?
The answer is yes. It would be really fun to see a kind of graph of his kit parts from most-used to least used. There must be stuff on there that he doesn't touch. There just has to be.
 
The answer is yes. It would be really fun to see a kind of graph of his kit parts from most-used to least used. There must be stuff on there that he doesn't touch. There just has to be.

Maybe there's a splash lyin' dormant somewhere. :)

But ultimately if I'm to believe the theory holds merit, then the most creative players are snare drummers.

If we're to take this silly argument and let it run it's course, then they just have to be. If a 4 piece kit forces you to be more creative than a 7 piece kit, then it stands to reason that a single drum is far more beneficial again, no?
 
So if I'm to believe you blokes, the most creative players are snare drummers.
I guess it all depends how you look at it. Most snare drummers I know have spent way, way more time going over how to be creative with their one drum than most kit drummers I know do. They obsess and study every permutation of every rudiment and pattern and rhythm they can get their hands on. They have to. They don't have a bunch of other things to play to make stuff interesting.

If we're to take this silly argument and let it run it's course, then they just have to be. If a 4 piece kit forces you to be more creative than a 7 piece kit, then it stands to reason that a single drum is far more beneficial again, no?

Like everything, balance is needed. We balance the need for more sounds for the music we play with the ability to do more with less and the creativity that breeds. If almost any music I want to play can be played or adapted easily to a standard 4 piece, why do I really "need" more to be a creative drummer? I know I need to be able to make certain categories of sounds if I want to play most rock and western music, so I balance. If I come to situations where more sound categories are needed, forgetting toms even, let's say a cow-bell or double pedal, I'd probably consider my balance again.

This is always funny to me, because I would usually rather ditch my high-tom, and the band I play with most is adamantly against it. Sometimes they want to hear it, so I keep it.
 
Maybe there's a splash lyin' dormant somewhere. :)

But ultimately if I'm to believe the theory holds merit, then the most creative players are snare drummers.

If we're to take this silly argument and let it run it's course, then they just have to be. If a 4 piece kit forces you to be more creative than a 7 piece kit, then it stands to reason that a single drum is far more beneficial again, no?
Perhaps we should extend the argument even further. Let's not bother with lighting at our gigs, use only a vocal PA on sticks for a 500 audience gig, not mic up the kit, deny the vocalist the use of reverb. I'm sure the audience will really embrace the extra creativity & completely disregard the apparent lack of effort.

What business are we in again?
 
Perhaps we should extend the argument even further. Let's not bother with lighting at our gigs, use only a vocal PA on sticks for a 500 audience gig, not mic up the kit, deny the vocalist the use of reverb. I'm sure the audience will really embrace the extra creativity & completely disregard the apparent lack of effort.

What business are we in again?

That's not really the same thing, but we could start demanding that guitar players only play double-necked 12 string guitars... Or that all bass players would be more creative if they only had 9 string fret-less bass guitars.

I do have to express my shock that a drum builder would defend "big kits" though... (just kidding, really!)
 
Perhaps we should extend the argument even further. Let's not bother with lighting at our gigs, use only a vocal PA on sticks for a 500 audience gig, not mic up the kit, deny the vocalist the use of reverb. I'm sure the audience will really embrace the extra creativity & completely disregard the apparent lack of effort.

What business are we in again?

Not the same. At all.

A more appropriate comparison would be a seven or eight stringed guitarist switching to a six stringed guitar, so that they don't find themselves relying on extra strings to sound good.

Less in quantity - Not quality. The audience loses nothing when a drummer uses two toms instead of 4 or 5... Look at Matt Halpern, live vs. in the studio. Nobody in the audience bats an eye when they see him playing on a kick/floor/snare configuration.

A smaller kit forces a drummer to play more interesting fills, and in most cases, the drummers that start out on the smallest kits end up with the most interesting and original styles... Which is why most people recommend starting with a single pedal instead of a double, hats/ride/crash, etc., etc.
 
Not the same. At all...

I think he is actually right on it. Your premise is that a deliberate limitation of quantity of equipment results in or displays more creativity in a player.

So is an artist who just does sketches a better artist that the guy who does murals? Is he a more creative artist?

I think it is a little naïve to make blanket statements about the creativity of a player like that.
 
In the mid 90's, my then band pressured me into changing into a 4 pc, because it's what everyone was doing.

I didn't want to be like everyone else, so I played a a 5pc.
 
I miss playing Rockabilly. I got away with playing a kit with a single floor tom. I don't feel that it made me ore creative but it was nice to carry less stuff to a gig.
 
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