Ludwig P-85 rant

I have a Supraphonic with a P-85 that had the notorious jamming problem. The mechanism would stick when trying to engage the wires.

Tried all the usual suggestions, tore it down, carefully greased it, and it still jammed just as badly until I put a rubber grommet on the adjustment shaft to prevent the mechanism from sliding into the jammed position. Works fine now.

As for those of you who are having trouble with the heads stripping on the clamp screws, just take one of them down to a hardware store (a real one, Ace or Do It Best or True Value or something like that) and buy a couple of Phillips head screws in stainless steel.

Can't remember the size at the moment; they're probably either 4-40 or 6-32.
 
As for those of you who are having trouble with the heads stripping on the clamp screws, just take one of them down to a hardware store (a real one, Ace or Do It Best or True Value or something like that) and buy a couple of Phillips head screws in stainless steel.


Some have mentioned @ $700 you shouldn't have to do this.

At $900 apparently LUDWIG doesn't think so either.
 

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Thicker walled, or heavier specs in some cases, but I doubt it's different metal.

There are only a few companies making this stuff. Yamaha uses it's motorcycle factory (or it did) to make parts, but other than them, who is making hardware in-house?
There are a few making their own shell hardware, but it's rare ;) ;) ;)

A quick point on heavy weight hardware. The reason it needs to be heavy weight is because the metal quality is appalling. One day they'll wake up & work out you can use much lighter gauge constructions if you use better material, & hey presto - the drum sounds so much better for it!

On the P85 - I have no issues with the base design, in fact, I quite like it. It carries the benefit of fairly low mass, & that's a good thing, but in terms of construction quality, it's about as bad as you can get.

When customers argue about the quality of a strainer/whatever, & sight small increase in cost being worth it, they forget the context. The assumption is that a Dollar or two extra isn't a big deal on a $700 drum, but what they're forgetting is it's not a $700 drum in production cost terms. I'd be shocked if that drum cost over $100 to make in straight forward materials & labour, so a few extra Dollars suddenly makes a difference.
 
I stumbled on this old thread looking for an answer on a P32 question.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108372

Forum Member Steve scored a Luddy snare that came with key screws on the throw. Image borrow from the above thread. How did someone manage that and where can I get one??


I'd also appreciate it If anyone would lend me some wisdom on the Ludwig department. I'm trying to find a butt plate that would retrofit an Acrolite shell. Is there any buttplate out there with a 2 1/8" spacing? I'm looking for something to replace the P32 without the need of an adapter plate.
 
I stumbled on this old thread looking for an answer on a P32 question.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108372

Forum Member Steve scored a Luddy snare that came with key screws on the throw. Image borrow from the above thread. How did someone manage that and where can I get one??



I'd also appreciate it If anyone would lend me some wisdom on the Ludwig department. I'm trying to find a butt plate that would retrofit an Acrolite shell. Is there any buttplate out there with a 2 1/8" spacing? I'm looking for something to replace the P32 without the need of an adapter plate.

This is what would close the door on this entire debate/issue. A simple fix to modernize a tried and true design (quirks notwithstanding). Where can this be obtained?
Ludwig, please wake up!
 
Yeah, I've got a slotted screwdriver in my bag... but will it fit theses screws?

Is this the quality of screws one expects at $700, is there a good possibility my tool slip off and scratch the drums finish and/or maybe slice my finger?
 

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Yeah, I've got a slotted screwdriver in my bag... but will it fit theses screws?

Is this the quality of screws one expects at $700, is there a good possibility my tool slip off and scratch the drums finish and/or maybe slice my finger?

I use a stubby screwdiver, as it is way easier to handle, and alot less likely to slip. I know this isn't the answer you want, just trying to help a bit.
 
Some have mentioned @ $700 you shouldn't have to do this.

At $900 apparently LUDWIG doesn't think so either.

I know Ludwig updated their new (P33) butt plates, but there are a few flaws while doing so. They should have kept the mounting hole spacing the same, so that you could swap it out with the P32. Then, on the new drums, they mounted it too low, so that if you run a snare side head that stretches a bit, the hoop bottoms out on the head collar. (face palm)
 
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It's fun to banter back and forth on this kind of stuff, but c'mon. They haven't used a P-32 butt plate in close to 10 years on the 400, 402, BB's etc...
There's no $7-900 snares selling from them today with those old type screws.

The 32 on my '96 Hammered 402 had Phillips head screws that are pretty thick.
The Acro Classic has the heavier Phillips heads too.
I changed the stuff on the Hammered snare to hex screws (found chrome one's, thought they were cool). No more of a pain to pull out the hex head driver than a screwdriver.

I think there are some drum key head screws from TAMA that might work.
If they are a tiny bit too big, just tap out the hole on the P-85-86 to fit.
There has to be SOMETHING that fits, because Steve has a drum with them, and I have seen the P-86 pictured with drum key screws.
 
I think there are some drum key head screws from TAMA that might work.
If they are a tiny bit too big, just tap out the hole on the P-85-86 to fit.
There has to be SOMETHING that fits, because Steve has a drum with them, and I have seen the P-86 pictured with drum key screws.

When I spend north of $400 on a snare drum, I shouldn't have to "tap out the hole". For something as basic as this, which every other drum maker figured out 30 years ago, it's annoying. You can still remain classic while not being obstinate.
 
OMG, are you all still fumbling about with this thread?
Look, The design specs of the screw that is used to secure the snare wire strands to snare strainers and butt plates is not that important in the real world.
Move on with your lives :)
My fav design is the one where you simply tie the snare wire set to the strainer with chord that is passed through various holes in the strainers tension post. it leaves a lot up to the imagination as to how one ties the knots and which holes are used.
 
When it comes to Ludwigs drummers are like an old married couple. We'll be having the same arguments twenty years from now with at least another 20 to go8^).
 
Spend less time screwing around with your strainer and more PRACTICING.
 
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