Playing for the song, but still leaving a bit of "yourself" on the track.

N

Noestre

Guest
A bit of a thought that has been going through my head recently when recording drums to music.

When recording for a track, the most important thing is to play for the music and support it(differs from type of music of course), but how can you make it so you don't sound like everyone else? Make the drumming your own and leave a piece of yourself in the process.

Signature licks, signature feel, subdivisions?
Many seem to either play like someone/everyone else, or just blast through with licks and technique, running over the whole tune.
 
The purist answer, I think, would be that putting "yourself" on the music is not what's important at all. That if you're truly serving the song, then you're letting it dictate what you play and not doing anything self-serving to draw attention to yourself.

But it's all kind of bulls*** to me, because there is no definition for what playing for the music means. I think what it really means to people in the business is to put all the focus on one person, usually the vocalist. But what if a cool drum groove IS what makes the song? Think about Paul Simon strumming the chords to 50 Ways and tell me if someone played Gadd's groove today, would that be well-received?

I watched a clip of Paul Leim recently cutting a demo in a Nashville studio, and he re-did a part because his fill (stupid word, IMO) was stepping on the vocal.

By contrast, I was watching some footage of Elvis recently and reading about the special relationship he had with his drummer, Ron Tutt. He gave Tutt lots of room to do his thing, and he fed off the way Tutt would ramp up the intensity with his drumming. Tutt played WAY more than anyone would dare do behind a star performer today. The crowd loved it. Nobody left because he played a lot of licks.

So I think the whole "playing for the music" is just speaking in platitudes.
 
Making something your own comes from two places. Your physicality and your choices.

Your physicality manifests itself in everything you play. It's like a fingerprint, and is not something you can hide or change easily. Bonham will sound like Bonham, regardless of the kit used, the part played, the song, etc. BB King will sound like BB King regardless of the guitar he's playing, the song he's accompanying, etc.

The second is the choices you make. Listening to the music, developing grooves, ad-libs, transitions, etc. Compare Ringo's "Getting Better" with rhythmically similar songs (So Happy Together, Cuddly Toy, etc). It's infinitely more interesting and extremely sympathetic to the writing and other parts. It would never have occurred to me (or anyone else) to play that particular rhythm, and that's why he's Ringo.

Listen to the music you're accompanying. Mull it over 50 different ways. Try to imagine the part played by different famous drummers. Try imagining what it would sound like with various instrumentation. Imagine it with a minimalist composition, etc, etc. Try to find that special 'something' that nobody else would ever think of, but magically works.
 
8Mile said:
The purist answer, I think, would be that putting "yourself" on the music is not what's important at all. That if you're truly serving the song, then you're letting it dictate what you play and not doing anything self-serving to draw attention to yourself.

But it's all kind of bulls*** to me, because there is no definition for what playing for the music means.
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Agree, and disagree.

Unless you are known for (and therefore hired for) your signature feel... or unless you have your own project where you get to do what you want and nobody can tell you otherwise... you do your best to give the person what they hired you for: to make their music sound its best.

Don't make a song yours... make it theirs.

There is seldom an absolute about what playing for the music is, but there's also not much leeway in terms of what works well in a song. Sometimes it's a very fine line. One well-placed kick can make a groove, or break it. The ability for players to home in without too much direction is what separates pros from amateurs, and even some pros from other pros. Those pros also know when they can (occasionally) themselves, and when they must serve the song.

Bermuda
 
The last thing that's worth mentioning.

When playing on someone else's project, you need to trick/train/convince/whatever yourself into loving the song, as if it's the greatest fucking thing you've ever heard, and you are thrilled to be a part of it. You need to immerse yourself in the song, listen to and read the lyrics. Pay close attention to the guitar and bass lines. Listen to the spaces. Get into it. Otherwise, you're just keeping time.

While I've always envied the technical ability of the session guys that can bang out track after track of cookie cutter grooves with astounding quality, I realized early on that I will probably never be that kind of musician. Fortunately, what I lack in technical chops I can typically make up for in other ways.
 
Generally, yes, the drummer should leave a bit of themselves in the track. Unless, kinda like Bermuda said, the drummer is paid not to. Music needs that kind of creativity to keep it interesting and meaningful.
 
bermuda said:
Agree, and disagree.

Unless you are known for (and therefore hired for) your signature feel... or unless you have your own project where you get to do what you want and nobody can tell you otherwise... you do your best to give the person what they hired you for: to make their music sound its best.

Don't make a song yours... make it theirs.

There is seldom an absolute about what playing for the music is, but there's also not much leeway in terms of what works well in a song. Sometimes it's a very fine line. One well-placed kick can make a groove, or break it. The ability for players to home in without too much direction is what separates pros from amateurs, and even some pros from other pros. Those pros also know when they can (occasionally) themselves, and when they must serve the song.

Bermuda
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I suppose I'm leaving out the important distinction between being a hired gun and being in a collaborative or songwriter/bandleader situation. If you're trying to help an artist realize her vision, then yes, it's all about giving everything to that aim without concern for getting your personal fingerprints on it.

I guess part of my gripe is that I think the collaborative elements is less in play than it used to be. I, for one, like hearing a band contribute to a musical piece sometimes. Sometimes (not always) it adds to the final result.
 
By the way, during a lesson with Jim Riley, he mentioned that an engineer/producer (forget which) told him not to obsess over finding ways not to play the same thing twice. For instance, if a fill works once in the song, nobody is going to care if you play the same thing again. He said it left a huge impression on him and he imparted that to me. I can understand the point, but that does challenge us as musicians who want to be creative in our own way. The constant battle for balance.
 
A hired gun, unless they are famous, play what they are told. If you are hired for your sound and style then tuning, dynamics and phrasing are what comes over.
 
Thaard said:
A bit of a thought that has been going through my head recently when recording drums to music.

When recording for a track, the most important thing is to play for the music and support it(differs from type of music of course), but how can you make it so you don't sound like everyone else? Make the drumming your own and leave a piece of yourself in the process.

Signature licks, signature feel, subdivisions?
Many seem to either play like someone/everyone else, or just blast through with licks and technique, running over the whole tune.
Click to expand...

This is the kinda' stuff that makes me frustrated sometimes with other musicians. They're so obsessed with thinking "I have to pee on this to make it mine" that they're not grateful for being given the chance to play in the first place. I've made a semi-career out of just giving people exactly what they want, and have been happy doing so. Maybe I've shifted as I've gotten older, but I'm not that concerned with hearing a piece of recorded music and immediately noticing that I was playing on it, as I am about hearing a good song that I'd want to listen to over and over - or the fact that my playing on anything might have paid for that car I drive, or the food on the table in the house I own.

Sorry for the alpha-dog analogy, but that's exactly what I think whenever I hear someone talk about "How do I be me?" in these kinds of discussions. As it's been in every successful band or situation: IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU. It's about the end product. Do all you can to make that end-product successful, and you will be successful, and the people that need to know it was you, will know.
 
I don't really worry about it.

If the song is making a musical statement I want to make, then it's me.

If I'm on it, then I know it's me, and that's fine.

I've tried writing my own songs so I would have a platform to put more interesting drumming on than the usual stuff I've done, but the more I got into it, the more I realized I wanted to make a good song, and writing with the intend of putting more of "me" into the drum track was backwards.
 
8Mile said:
I suppose I'm leaving out the important distinction between being a hired gun and being in a collaborative or songwriter/bandleader situation.
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That's true, and I certainly put a little of myself into the bands with whom I'm a permanent member. But that part of myself is the same unbiased part that goes into a strictly commercial work, and that is to make the final track/performance sound its best... not like me (whoever that is.)

There's no question that I work more and enjoy longevity with bands and artists, because I don't try to put my mark (whatever that is) on the music. I've built and maintained a career doing things that way, and I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Other drummers don't have to do things my way... I would prefer that they don't, and I thank them! :)

Bermuda
 
Matt Bo Eder said:
As it's been in every successful band or situation: IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU. It's about the end product. Do all you can to make that end-product successful, and you will be successful, and the people that need to know it was you, will know.
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Yep

Yes

Agreed

Concur

20
 
You could drum in Morse code to spell your name. Over and over and over.

You could slip in your favorite chosen sound on everything you record. Any sound you want.

You could use a dog whistle the whole time you're recording so any dog listening will go nuts.

You could say your name into the snare mic. Over and over and over lol.

Sorry, I'm just stupid right now, and you gave me a great excuse to prove it.
 
Matt Bo Eder said:
This is the kinda' stuff that makes me frustrated sometimes with other musicians. They're so obsessed with thinking "I have to pee on this to make it mine" that they're not grateful for being given the chance to play in the first place. I've made a semi-career out of just giving people exactly what they want, and have been happy doing so. Maybe I've shifted as I've gotten older, but I'm not that concerned with hearing a piece of recorded music and immediately noticing that I was playing on it, as I am about hearing a good song that I'd want to listen to over and over - or the fact that my playing on anything might have paid for that car I drive, or the food on the table in the house I own.

Sorry for the alpha-dog analogy, but that's exactly what I think whenever I hear someone talk about "How do I be me?" in these kinds of discussions. As it's been in every successful band or situation: IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU. It's about the end product. Do all you can to make that end-product successful, and you will be successful, and the people that need to know it was you, will know.
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Well, if you want to be someone who sounds like everyone else, that's your choice. As for me, being successful isn't the main reason I play drums and do music, and I think that money and fame is a very shallow reason to do music.
Why don't we just program drum samples to all music so it can be perfect and the producers can save cash?

For me music is self expression, you are the best you. You're never going to be a better vinnie, elvin, tony or bonham, so why can't you play with your own feel in others music, if it complements the music? That's my opinion at the moment. Playing for the music is alpha and omega of course, but why not develop your own style?
 
Just like your fingerprint, you are gonna leave your "sound" on anything you play on. Doesn't matter if you "lay dead" and chop wood or you're cranking out some wacked out solo, you're gonna sound like you.

But play the music for what it's needs are and make that count.
 
Thaard said:
Well, if you want to be someone who sounds like everyone else, that's your choice. As for me, being successful isn't the main reason I play drums and do music, and I think that money and fame is a very shallow reason to do music.
Why don't we just program drum samples to all music so it can be perfect and the producers can save cash?

For me music is self expression, you are the best you. You're never going to be a better vinnie, elvin, tony or bonham, so why can't you play with your own feel in others music, if it complements the music? That's my opinion at the moment. Playing for the music is alpha and omega of course, but why not develop your own style?
Click to expand...

And this is why I tend to focus on original material over covers or being a drummer for hire. Because then the track itself is "me" regardless of what the drums are or aren't doing.
 
Thaard said:
Well, if you want to be someone who sounds like everyone else, that's your choice. As for me, being successful isn't the main reason I play drums and do music, and I think that money and fame is a very shallow reason to do music.
Click to expand...

I certainly didn't start drumming for the money, or fame. I just like playing drums, and the fact that I make a living at it is a nice bonus.

As for sounding like everyone else, I always listened to the pros and did what they did. As a result, I got to be a pro. So, yeah...

Bermuda
 
Thaard said:
Well, if you want to be someone who sounds like everyone else, that's your choice. As for me, being successful isn't the main reason I play drums and do music, and I think that money and fame is a very shallow reason to do music.
Why don't we just program drum samples to all music so it can be perfect and the producers can save cash?

For me music is self expression, you are the best you. You're never going to be a better vinnie, elvin, tony or bonham, so why can't you play with your own feel in others music, if it complements the music? That's my opinion at the moment. Playing for the music is alpha and omega of course, but why not develop your own style?
Click to expand...

Sorry. I still don't think you're getting it.

BTW - I've done my fair share of MIDI programming back in the 80s and early 90s too for people, and that didn't bug me either. I didn't start down my path to make money, because in the beginning there is simply no money to be had. Nobody knows who you are, nobody cares what you know, so you do your best to meet people so you can get out there and show people who you are and what you have to offer.

Bill Buford put it great in a 1983 interview, when he said "I want to be able to play stuff in 17/16 but I don't want to do that in my closet", which could also mean that yes, you can be as much of an artist as you like, but you're not entitled to get a hearing from anybody. Why should you?

I like to play, and I'll play anything. I don't have to sound like me, and in the end, like I said, those people who want to know, will know. And I'm happy with that. I just did a gig over the last two nights and one of the nicest compliments ever made to me by an employer was, "you know, we always sound great when you're playing" and as I listen to the playback this evening, I wasn't trying to pee all over the music being made, I was giving them what they needed, and in the end, that compliment is made. That's what it's all about for me. So in this particular instance, the people that need to know my artistic contribution, know about my artistic contribution.
 
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