Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

I'll wager that kind of reasoning will have you eyeball to knee cap with a hell of a lot more than just the feminists of the world.

You have that right. I've even had to duck a few thrown objects here in my own home!

I come into a sexism thread to describe a philosophy where unconditional equality exists and start getting told how women are "in general" inferior in so many ways. It saddens me to think that I used to feel exactly the same way, and it really took a monumental spiritual re-jiggering for me to come to terms with exactly how wrong I was.

Peace and love
 
You have that right.

The right to what? You've misunderstood me. Read it again old mate. I merely made a prediction of people other than feminists not agreeing with the line of thought you're flogging. "Eyeball to kneecap" really couldn't be any further away from "eye to eye" you see.

I come into a sexism thread to describe a philosophy where unconditional equality exists and start getting told how women are "in general" inferior in so many ways.

Not from me you didn't. But I will espouse that there ARE indeed differences. BIG differences. Differences to be celebrated, not denied........and certainly not to be used as some kind of leverage. To deny that there are differences doesn't equate to equality. Not by a long shot. To blatantly ignore that is a fools errand......or just someone trying to be deliberately provocative and controversial. Either way, universal truths are being overlooked in order to make the argument. Which might make it good for a giggle.....which it is.....but ultimately, hard to take seriously.
 
The right to what?

Right = Correct. As In, "You've got that correct!"


Not from me you didn't. But I will espouse that there ARE indeed differences. BIG differences. Differences to be celebrated, not denied........and certainly not to be used as some kind of leverage. To deny that there are differences doesn't equate to equality. Not by a long shot. To blatantly ignore that is a fools errand......or just someone trying to be deliberately provocative and controversial. Either way, universal truths are being overlooked in order to make the argument. Which might make it good for a giggle.....which it is.....but ultimately, hard to take seriously.

Indeed, and the only point of contention is to whether the differences are between man/man (my view) and man/woman (the popular view). Its really simple to work out. I'm not denying the existence of things that can be subjectively assessed and measured, I'm denying anything that would allow us to call half of mankind by some other name, and to treat them any differently, and make inaccurate generalizations about them.

Next Up: Half of all pennies have a picture of Abe Lincoln on the front.
 
Right = Correct. As In, "You've got that correct!"

Ah. Gotcha. Then while we're pretending there are no women, let's also pretend you don't speak English and we'll just call it 'lost in translation', hey? That way no one will know that I'm really an idiot. :)

I'm denying anything that would allow us to call half of mankind by some other name

Dunno mate, I reckon "man with a dick vs man with a vagina" could be reason enough to continue to make some sort of distinction though. It'll certainly help me determine which toilet I need to use.

Next Up: Half of all pennies have a picture of Abe Lincoln on the front.

Correction. Half of all United States pennies have Abe Lincoln on the front.


Sorry mate. I've always been that annoying little prick who's looking for any excuse to say "but". My school teachers thought I was a bloody nightmare! :)
 
What we should all be doing is treating people as individuals, with equal respect. End of.

This whole man with a snatch vs man with a pecker thing is pure BS.

There are times when the difference between a man and a woman is relevant, and times when it is not.
 
What we should all be doing is treating people as individuals, with equal respect. End of.

This whole man with a snatch vs man with a pecker thing is pure BS.

There are times when the difference between a man and a woman is relevant, and times when it is not.

Amen to that. Men and women ARE different from each other. Not one better / worse that the other, not superior / inferior, either way. Just different.

And I for one am very glad for that.
 
Late to the party here. Yup Madge, getting the second class citizen treatment is galling. We all know that a certain percentage of people are assholes.

I have to say that my treatment by men in music has been overwhelmingly positive. Most people are inherently decent IMO, even men ;-)
 
Dr, you're right.

The "threat" I was talking about - and I should have used a better word - was that of somebody keen to engage in a spot of horizontal tango.

Make no mistake. I've seen many a case where a guy gets drunk, has his eye on a lass, and all of a sudden thinks he has a right to be spittin' mad when she turns his drunk ass down for company.

In other words, there are some really messed up dudes out there who don't take rejection well, and insulting them (even if they truly deserve it for extremely tasteless pickup attempts) is like poking a sleeping bear with the afore-mentioned drumstick. Don't give their fragile little egos anything to latch onto.
 
Make no mistake. I've seen many a case where a guy gets drunk, has his eye on a lass, and all of a sudden thinks he has a right to be spittin' mad when she turns his drunk ass down for company.

There's an art to rejecting morons. Back in the day I found asking him all about his family, as though I was actually interested worked best. Once you get them (reluctantly) thinking about their mum, dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews and nieces you start becoming a human being to them rather than an object.

At that point most will flee.
 
Wow, I go to sleep and everything turns surreal!

Though I'm serious about throat-punching dickheads.

I know, chicken.

I would only ask that you as a female be the first to jump on any thread that starts with the Female Drummer or girl reference and let them know that there are only drummers on this forum. I think that will only strengthen your resolve.

With immense pleasure. It wouldn't be the first time!

I have a 7 year old daughter who is a killer soccer player and fledgling drummer. She already has to deal with boys who have trouble coping with the fact that she kills on the field and behind the kit.

Let's not forget that boys have to learn too, and that associating with your daughter - way to go! - is a great opportunity for them and their families.

Is it time for this thread to be closed, admins?
 
Men and Women are different, and It should be embraced. With the skills we have between us my other half and me make a great team.

Stating that men and women are the same is just plain stupid. Equal, without a doubt, but not the same, I am delighted to say.

Here is an off the wall thought. What If we let Women run the country, Britain, for those of you not from this Island.
Men, mostly, have been doing it for a long time and mostly making a pigs ear of it. I know Thatcher had a go but she was trying to run it like a man, In my opinion.

What If Women ran parliament and ran It the way they wanted, rather than towing the old party line and having to fit the male mould. I for one think the female mind may be better suited to managing a country than the tried and failed male model.
 
Men and Women are different, and It should be embraced. With the skills we have between us my other half and me make a great team.

Stating that men and women are the same is just plain stupid. Equal, without a doubt, but not the same, I am delighted to say.

Here is an off the wall thought. What If we let Women run the country, Britain, for those of you not from this Island.
Men, mostly, have been doing it for a long time and mostly making a pigs ear of it. I know Thatcher had a go but she was trying to run it like a man, In my opinion.

What If Women ran parliament and ran It the way they wanted, rather than towing the old party line and having to fit the male mould. I for one think the female mind may be better suited to managing a country than the tried and failed male model.

There's plenty of females in UK Government and Opposition.

They seem largely to be as corrupt, and completely incompetent, as the men.

One of my local MPs is Hazel Blears. Fiddled her expenses but paid it back, so that's all OK then.

And Thatcher...well the lids going to come off all her scams, and fiddles in time, probably beginning with the organised paedophile ring at Westminster in the 80s which appears to be just about beginning to unfold.
 
What seems to be coming out of this thread is that we all have a very similar view (we are all drummers after all), but sometimes the way that we express it get's lost in translation...probably time to agree to agree and move on.

Mark
 
Is it time for this thread to be closed, admins?

Dunno. Your thread and ultimately, your call. But you invited wider thought, musings and discussion on this for a reason. I can only assume because something bugged you enough to want to follow it up and seek the opinions and mindset of those that can perhaps offer another perspective to that of own. Now that you've done that, what's changed? Why invite the discussion only to ask to have it shut down when it arrives?

Ultimately Madge, it's your decision.......but I've noticed a few threads lately that have subsequently been shut down by those that instigated them. It leaves me to ask the obvious, why bother in the first place?
 
There's plenty of females in UK Government and Opposition.

They seem largely to be as corrupt, and completely incompetent, as the men.

One of my local MPs is Hazel Blears. Fiddled her expenses but paid it back, so that's all OK then.

And Thatcher...well the lids going to come off all her scams, and fiddles in time, probably beginning with the organised paedophile ring at Westminster in the 80s which appears to be just about beginning to unfold.

Missed my point entirely. I said if they "ran things the way they wanted". I would say most have had to become part of the male dominated political machine just to get on, and are kept on a tight leash by the whips, that's hardly running things the way they think. I also pointed out that Thatcher was trying to run it like a man, bullying and the rest.

I would say Parliament was a very sexist place to be. I also have no doubt that some of the women in there are simply a part of the "Quota" that parties feel they have to nominate so they can appear to be embracing equality and appeal to more voters. Its demeaning to women and frankly patronising to voters, male and female.
 
Missed my point entirely. I said if they "ran things the way they wanted". I would say most have had to become part of the male dominated political machine just to get on, and are kept on a tight leash by the whips, that's hardly running things the way they think. I also pointed out that Thatcher was trying to run it like a man, bullying and the rest.

I would say Parliament was a very sexist place to be. I also have no doubt that some of the women in there are simply a part of the "Quota" that parties feel they have to nominate so they can appear to be embracing equality and appeal to more voters. Its demeaning to women and frankly patronising to voters, male and female.

No I get your point. But I do think they are running things the way they want.

As soon as they get a taste of the gravy they fall into the conformous nature of 'take, take and take'. Almost without exception.

What do they say about 'power corrupts'

I don't think these women in politics are stupid. They're not just stooges there by the whim of men. Most of them are highly educated, qualified, people. But they get a taste for the nice champagne, and become greedy twats. Just like their male counterparts.

I can think of only a couple of exceptions (male or female) to this in politics. The lady who leads the Green Party (whose name evades me) seems to be one.
 
I also have no doubt that some of the women in there are simply a part of the "Quota" that parties feel they have to nominate so they can appear to be embracing equality and appeal to more voters.

That only makes sense if you assume that the seats belong to men by default until some women can prove themselves qualified to take them. Men get advanced for all kinds of reasons other than merit, especially if half of the population is out of the running altogether because of incorrect genitals. Suddenly holding women to a strict merit standard when everyone else clearly isn't being held to it, is basically what sexism is.
 
There is, without a doubt, a lot of sexism in the music industry - especially from the over 40 crowd. However, I can't help but think that part of what you are experiencing has elements of a general musicianism that all of us have to put up with.

I've ran into many, many situations where people assume a host of things about me just because of my career. Many of them are not very nice, and one of them is that I'm untrustable and easy. Add in stupid ("Who would want a career in music if you weren't just stupid?" I've heard that for real, and it was meant)and an alcoholic/drug addict/poor and now you really have someone you daughter wants to date.

If they see you and assume you are easy, and stupid and possibly addicted to drugs, then you can see why they say the things they say. Your day job, on the other hand, is high status, and people will automatically assume different things about you from it, and treat you accordingly.
 
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