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  #41  
Old 09-11-2012, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
I use a Coated Ambassador batter, with a 3" x 4" Coated Ambassador beater patch (taped to the head on the ends--it's free). Heads last eons (20 mil where the beater strikes :-) ), and I get a new head feel every time I change a patch. I also get no click (I hate "click"), just a great, fat, natural sound, with tone and punch with this type of patch.

Muffling is a roll I made that sits between the head and the pedal posts (also free--it's a white tube sock, glued on the end). It is insatntly adjustable, and is a no hassle device.



Smooth White or Coated Ambassador front head.
Inside is a small 1" thick piece of Polyfoam at the bottom of the shell to soak up any excess sound bouncing around (it is not used for "muffling"). It's cut 2" from the batter, and doesn't or barely touches the front head. If I have a mic hole, it's only a 4" one.

I do this on all my bass drums (a 14x24, 16, 18, and 2-20x26 drums and a 16x28) and it works great on every drum.

It's all simple, and less expensive than "specialized" heads and all that stuff.
I also play heavy rock, and I have NO problems using Coated Ambassadors.

You can PM me if you want a recording of the sound I get with this set-up.

Hope this helps in some way.
Interesting stuff and thank you for sharing! I specifically like the sock idea. It's so obvious, but yet creative at the same time.

Thanks man!
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  #42  
Old 12-22-2012, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

what kind of music are you going to play?Jazz get the Brooklyn's,hard rock or
metal get the Keystones,
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  #43  
Old 12-26-2012, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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what kind of music are you going to play?Jazz get the Brooklyn's,hard rock or
metal get the Keystones,
Mainly rock and funk. I got the Classic Maples and absolutely love them!

I will say that I still don't like the floor tom leg brackets all that much, but whatever. This is a fantastic sounding kit and luckily for me, has absolutely no quality issues.
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  #44  
Old 12-26-2012, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Mainly rock and funk. I got the Classic Maples and absolutely love them!

I will say that I still don't like the floor tom leg brackets all that much, but whatever. This is a fantastic sounding kit and luckily for me, has absolutely no quality issues.
A couple of months late, but congrats on the kit..............I've been seriously looking into crossing over into the 24" bass drum world............haven't done it yet, but your experiences have me thinking about it even more
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  #45  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Mainly rock and funk. I got the Classic Maples and absolutely love them!

I will say that I still don't like the floor tom leg brackets all that much, but whatever. This is a fantastic sounding kit and luckily for me, has absolutely no quality issues.
Have you tried the Ludwig Atlas Pro pedals yet? They are fabulous. I suggest you try one out. Once you do...you will wonder why you didn't sooner.
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  #46  
Old 12-27-2012, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Mainly rock and funk. I got the Classic Maples and absolutely love them!

I will say that I still don't like the floor tom leg brackets all that much, but whatever. This is a fantastic sounding kit and luckily for me, has absolutely no quality issues.
Just a quick question, what brackets do you have installed on your floor tom, keystone or classic?

Dennis
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  #47  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Just a quick question, what brackets do you have installed on your floor tom, keystone or classic?

Dennis
Sorry for the delay! I have the classic style brackets. I mean, they work and I'm not slamming the company or anything crazy like that! I've just felt floor tom leg brackets that were much nicer than these.

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  #48  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Have you tried the Ludwig Atlas Pro pedals yet? They are fabulous. I suggest you try one out. Once you do...you will wonder why you didn't sooner.
Really? Hmmmm! I haven't tried them yet!
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  #49  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:44 PM
Bonzobilly Bonzobilly is offline
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

I have the keystone brackets on my CM kit. I love 'em! Nothing wrong with the classic brackets, functionally speaking but I just think the keystones are just more modern and they work great. No need to over tighten. Can you replace them if you wanted to? Not sure if the holes line up or not?
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  #50  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

I posted this a long time ago comparing the wall thickness of a Ludwig Elite bracket and a DW TB12. Most people would agree the DW is a pretty awesome bracket--which it SHOULD BE at a $60 list price.



The walls on the Ludwig bracket on the left are a lot thicker, even where the screws go in to attach it.
The rest of the bracket work the same on both pieces. There is a pretty big price difference between the two.

The Classic bracket is fine, but the thicker T-handles Ludwig has (P-3903) feel better with it.
The legs are mainly what I don't really care for with the Classic ft set up, just too long to me.
The Classic bracket itself is OK, and isn't going to break, but I'll agree it doesn't feel "as sturdy" as other mounts available.
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  #51  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

BTW, not being a "Fanboy". I know Ludwig has it's issues.

Just found it interesting that the wall thickness on these two brackets that I use was so different.
I will say that Ludwig's Tube lugs (AND screws) are way beefier than the generic Tube lugs put on all the "BB copy" snares, and lugs you get from suppliers.
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  #52  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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I have the keystone brackets on my CM kit. I love 'em! Nothing wrong with the classic brackets, functionally speaking but I just think the keystones are just more modern and they work great. No need to over tighten. Can you replace them if you wanted to? Not sure if the holes line up or not?
This is also what I have and have no issues with them.



Dennis
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  #53  
Old 12-28-2012, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
...
The legs are mainly what I don't really care for with the Classic ft set up, just too long to me.
The Classic bracket itself is OK, and isn't going to break, but I'll agree it doesn't feel "as sturdy" as other mounts available.
Yeah, that's all I'm really saying. The classic bracket doesn't "feel" as sturdy as others. Not really griping much about it, though. They're working fine.

The legs are really long, I agree. I thought about cutting them down, just to make transport that much easier.
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  #54  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Sorry for the delay! I have the classic style brackets. I mean, they work and I'm not slamming the company or anything crazy like that! I've just felt floor tom leg brackets that were much nicer than these.

Buy the memory locks to fit the mounts and you will be happy.
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  #55  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Buy the memory locks to fit the mounts and you will be happy.
Just got them from eBay and I agree they're a good idea.
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  #56  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by zambizzi View Post
Frickin' sweet! You won't be disappointed w/ Classic Maples, or the deeper shell. Don't give up! Be patient and prepare for a period of adjustment, since you're just getting your bass foot together. It took me just under one year to really feel strong on a 24x16", having always played a 22" (of various depths.) You'll have frustrating days...I sure did...but sticking with it is well worth it. I'm actually MORE comfy on a 24" kick now, than any other size. Also, I recently started playing w/ shoes, having always played in socks, so I had yet another challenge to overcome. My right foot has never been faster or more articulate...it was worth the work.
I was just now reading back through this thread for a piece of info and saw this post.

Zambizzi, you were 100% correct. I'm still not 100% on the 24" (my foot is JUST starting to come around period), but I'm getting there.
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  #57  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
...The Classic bracket is fine, but the thicker T-handles Ludwig has (P-3903) feel better with it...
That's the info I was looking for, but I also thought I remembered someone saying they put Gibraltar t-handles on the Classic floor tom brackets. Didn't see that in this thread. Must've read that somewhere else.

I may try to replace the t-handles soon with something nicer feeling.
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  #58  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

Wow, old thread!
I put Gibratar wing nuts (6mm) on all my Elite Brackets on the ft's. They feel much better than the wing nuts that come on the Elite bracket.

The thicker Ludwig T handles that I posted the number for work really well.
The other one's are fine, but for having to set up quicker on a gig, and even more for breaking down after a show, the thicker, more comfortable pieces are nice.

The new ATLAS wing nuts are great, but, I'm not sure if they'd have too big a span for that Classic Bracket. I could check tonight though, it may be an optical thing, and really only be as wide as what is on the Classic.
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  #59  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Wow, old thread!
I put Gibratar wing nuts (6mm) on all my Elite Brackets on the ft's. They feel much better than the wing nuts that come on the Elite bracket.

The thicker Ludwig T handles that I posted the number for work really well.
The other one's are fine, but for having to set up quicker on a gig, and even more for breaking down after a show, the thicker, more comfortable pieces are nice.

The new ATLAS wing nuts are great, but, I'm not sure if they'd have too big a span for that Classic Bracket. I could check tonight though, it may be an optical thing, and really only be as wide as what is on the Classic.
I must've read your post about the Gibraltar wing nuts in another thread! I still don't like the classic floor tom brackets much at all and I'd replace them immediately if I could find a nice replacement. The Elite brackets looks more functional to me, even if not quite as nice cosmetically.

I did a google search to find out if the Elite brackets are a direct fit for the Classic brackets and some people said the holes would need widening a tiny bit and several other people said they were exactly the same. Hm.
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  #60  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

It's funny, I like the simplicity of the Classic bracket. The eye bolt makes it very sturdy too. Too each their own.

My floor tom legs are really short for some reason. Must be 'cause they're an old model.
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  #61  
Old 07-11-2013, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

Short legs=older model. The leg length is about 23" since the 70's or so. Elite legs are only 21".

The Elite racket was a bit easier to deal with (on some newer drums), which is why I changed the Classics I had over when they came out. The Elite legs are a little fatter, and they had memory locks on them to when I initially changed them. Now a Classic has a memory lock option too, but back then, all I could use was a small hose clamp.

Sgt: If you do change them out, the hole size itself is fine, but the spacings don't match up.

Widen the TOP HOLE slightly. It's not much, a regular round file will work. The bracket screws washer covers the hole too, that's how little difference there is.

Do the TOP hole (towards the top of the drum, right side up), that way the bottom hole is in the same exact spot all the way around.
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  #62  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Short legs=older model. The leg length is about 23" since the 70's or so. Elite legs are only 21".

The Elite racket was a bit easier to deal with (on some newer drums), which is why I changed the Classics I had over when they came out. The Elite legs are a little fatter, and they had memory locks on them to when I initially changed them. Now a Classic has a memory lock option too, but back then, all I could use was a small hose clamp.

Sgt: If you do change them out, the hole size itself is fine, but the spacings don't match up.

Widen the TOP HOLE slightly. It's not much, a regular round file will work. The bracket screws washer covers the hole too, that's how little difference there is.

Do the TOP hole (towards the top of the drum, right side up), that way the bottom hole is in the same exact spot all the way around.
That's exactly what I've been reading about in my google searches. Saw a few posts from you on the subject. :)

I read that they discontinued the Elite floor tom leg brackets, because the actual legs touch the bottom hoop when using them? Not sure what that's all about. I thought I still saw the Elite brackets being offered in the latest Ludwig catalog. Maybe they fixed the issue and didn't really discontinue them, not sure.

Then there's the Keystone bracket. It looks good and apparently is the same hole spacing as the Elite, which means your instructions above for widening the top hole slightly should work for Keystone brackets too.

Then I'd have to get the larger legs, I presume. I would love to have larger diameter legs and more sturdy brackets and I'm not really scare of widening the hole. I may do this sometime soon.

Thanks for the advice.
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  #63  
Old 07-11-2013, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

Oh shoot, I almost completely forgot that the Classic brackets on my 1-year old Classic Maple set all have these huge gaskets that make the brackets stick out from the shell more than the old style brackets. I'll try to find a picture online of what I'm saying.

I bought a Classic bracket and use it as a ride cymbal mount on the bass drum and it came with the smaller thin rubber gasket, not the big ass plastic gasket that came installed on my new drums. Weird.

That could actually make things more difficult.
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  #64  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

I had one set of Classic gaskets come in on a FT that were these molded plastic jobs. Probably 1/4" thick! All the others were just the 1/16th thick rubber like my first two.

My first Elite brackets on a drum had the thicker gaskets, and the first couple sets I bought as parts used them too.
Then they changed to the thinner style...why?, I don't know (because Ludwig sucks right? They have that inexcusable rod splay and all that, so they blow right? ;-P).

The clearance is not quite as much, but none of the newer legs touch the hoops, so whatever.

Yes, the spacing for Elite and Keystone are the same. NO problem with clearance with a Keystone bracket. They do look kinda cool, but changing over (at the least) 9 floor toms i$'t going to happen for me :-)
Extending the top hole up a little still applies, and it's about 1/16th".
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  #65  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
I had one set of Classic gaskets come in on a FT that were these molded plastic jobs. Probably 1/4" thick! All the others were just the 1/16th thick rubber like my first two.

My first Elite brackets on a drum had the thicker gaskets, and the first couple sets I bought as parts used them too.
Then they changed to the thinner style...why?, I don't know (because Ludwig sucks right? They have that inexcusable rod splay and all that, so they blow right? ;-P).

The clearance is not quite as much, but none of the newer legs touch the hoops, so whatever.

Yes, the spacing for Elite and Keystone are the same. NO problem with clearance with a Keystone bracket. They do look kinda cool, but changing over (at the least) 9 floor toms i$'t going to happen for me :-)
Extending the top hole up a little still applies, and it's about 1/16th".
Thanks for your consistent help with all-things-Ludwig! You've saved me a ton of time in this thread and several others. Really appreciate it.
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  #66  
Old 07-12-2013, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

I've had my Keystones for about a year and a half now.

Specs:

9x 13 Tom
14x24 Virgin Kick
16x16 Floor Tom
16x18 Floor Tom

5 ply shells configured as follows:

3 ply maple core 2.4mm thick
1/16" inner and outer ply of oak
Dual 45 degree bearing edge

Heads:

Evans G2 batter over Evans EC Reso on the toms
Evans EQ1 Clear batter and Evans EQ1 Black Reso (ported) on the kick


The drums were delivered extremely well packaged and in perfect condition. The outer finish had no visual defects. I believe that at this point these drums are only offered in wrap finish. The wrap I chose was the Mint Oyster Glass that looks great with no flaws and looks to be applied very well. The inner finish of each drum seemed flawless as well. The bearing edges were all smooth and level. All holes were bored cleanly and no lugs were loose.

I'd classify the overall quality of the fit and finish of the shell pack as outstanding.

The "claw like" lugs on the kick drum seemed well made and look "low profile" to me. The spurs can be set to position easily and seem very sturdy and easy to use. The tips are retractable/adjustable and very pointy and sharp.

The hardware on the drums seems very well made and durable. The ride tom mount easily attaches to cymbal stand and provides great placement flexibility. The lugs are small and are designed for minimal contact. To me, they look kind of vintage.

The entire appearance of the kit, to me, seems "retro". I like.


The Sound:

FAT AND LOUD! I love the sound of these drums. Sharp and solid attack with a short decay. Consistantly get comments on how great they sound from both musicians and non-musicians alike. Perfect for the genre I'm currently playing.

Overall Impression:

Price point for this configuration seems to be in the $1,500 to $1,800 range. Other configurations can range from $1,300 to $2,500.

I'm very pleased and happy with these drums. For the money, if you're in the market for a "classic rock" sounding kit, would highly recommend the Ludwig Keysone Series.
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  #67  
Old 07-12-2013, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by Push View Post
I've had my Keystones for about a year and a half now.

Specs:

9x 13 Tom
14x24 Virgin Kick
16x16 Floor Tom
16x18 Floor Tom

5 ply shells configured as follows:

3 ply maple core 2.4mm thick
1/16" inner and outer ply of oak
Dual 45 degree bearing edge

Heads:

Evans G2 batter over Evans EC Reso on the toms
Evans EQ1 Clear batter and Evans EQ1 Black Reso (ported) on the kick


The drums were delivered extremely well packaged and in perfect condition. The outer finish had no visual defects. I believe that at this point these drums are only offered in wrap finish. The wrap I chose was the Mint Oyster Glass that looks great with no flaws and looks to be applied very well. The inner finish of each drum seemed flawless as well. The bearing edges were all smooth and level. All holes were bored cleanly and no lugs were loose.

I'd classify the overall quality of the fit and finish of the shell pack as outstanding.

The "claw like" lugs on the kick drum seemed well made and look "low profile" to me. The spurs can be set to position easily and seem very sturdy and easy to use. The tips are retractable/adjustable and very pointy and sharp.

The hardware on the drums seems very well made and durable. The ride tom mount easily attaches to cymbal stand and provides great placement flexibility. The lugs are small and are designed for minimal contact. To me, they look kind of vintage.

The entire appearance of the kit, to me, seems "retro". I like.


The Sound:

FAT AND LOUD! I love the sound of these drums. Sharp and solid attack with a short decay. Consistantly get comments on how great they sound from both musicians and non-musicians alike. Perfect for the genre I'm currently playing.

Overall Impression:

Price point for this configuration seems to be in the $1,500 to $1,800 range. Other configurations can range from $1,300 to $2,500.

I'm very pleased and happy with these drums. For the money, if you're in the market for a "classic rock" sounding kit, would highly recommend the Ludwig Keysone Series.
Hmmm.........guess I should read an entire thread before posting. My bad. Congrats on the new kit. Enjoy.
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  #68  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

Nice review on the kit in general. Nice sizes too. The new Atlas mount will work on the toms (CM or KS), eliminating the Vibra-band mount altogether if you use one.

Kevin Packard from Ludwig said they were going to be available as a part this month (July). Don't know the price though.
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  #69  
Old 07-12-2013, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

Thanks. I just use a snare stand.
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  #70  
Old 07-12-2013, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Hmmm.........guess I should read an entire thread before posting. My bad. Congrats on the new kit. Enjoy.
LOL! Nice kit you have there. I'm fully convinced now that the Keystone series are killer and high quality. Haven't played on in person, but I have my eyes on those newly released setups (20" or 22" bass drum).
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  #71  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Thanks. I just use a snare stand.
Me too.

If you ever feel that the tom might sound a bit choked, check out the things called "Little Booty Shakers". I saw them at the Chicago Drum Show this past May, picked some up, and they work fantastically. Like you were just holding the rim, and it wasn't in a basket. Total resonance. They're pretty cheap, easy to attach, and stable too.
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  #72  
Old 07-12-2013, 11:07 PM
Push Push is offline
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Me too.

If you ever feel that the tom might sound a bit choked, check out the things called "Little Booty Shakers". I saw them at the Chicago Drum Show this past May, picked some up, and they work fantastically. Like you were just holding the rim, and it wasn't in a basket. Total resonance. They're pretty cheap, easy to attach, and stable too.
Never heard of them so looked them up online. Look interesting. Might try. Thx.
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  #73  
Old 07-13-2013, 01:09 AM
Push Push is offline
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Default Re: Build Quality? - Ludwig Classic Maple, Keystone, and Gretsch Brooklyn

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
LOL! Nice kit you have there. I'm fully convinced now that the Keystone series are killer and high quality. Haven't played on in person, but I have my eyes on those newly released setups (20" or 22" bass drum).
Yeah, of the kits I have it's in my top 2.

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