Leave Me Alone, rant 2

marthared

Member
How timely to get on the forum and see a thread titled "Leave Me Alone", because I want to post one titled that too, but with a different twist. "You jealous, no-nothing-about-drums-wanta-be's, LEAVE ME ALONE!" Quit telling me after a performance that my drums are out of tune.... Stop telling me that my rolls aren't smooth enough (from jazz players, and I'm a rocker), stop telling me that my great Ludwig set sounds flat ("Sorry dude, but I have Remo Emperor heads on for a reason, and my drums aren't tuned to musical notes.. they're tuned to John Bonham's tuning because it's a Bonham-size set!).... etc... etc.. etc.... Why are there always people that try and tell you what your drums should sound like and how you should play? Why do wanta-be jazz players try and tell a rock player how to do rolls? At the same time that these wanta-bees are telling you you should play different and your drums should be different, 10-times as many people, including other musicians, are telling you that you sound great!
Have you guys all experienced such things? I just want to tell these weirdo's "Dude, go tell it to my 2 classic rock band groups, my church worship team, and the other people I play for that love me playing for them."
Am I perfect, and have no room for improvement? Of course not.. have a long way to go.. but these people that either aren't musicians and think they are, or don't play the same genre of music are very annoying...
People, "Leave me ALONE!"
 
marthared:

I have had a few people tell me stuff like that, but not many.

I don't exactly know how to say this. I don't want to offend you or anybody else.

Ah heck, I'll just say it !
I think this is happening to you mostly because you are a female drummer.
I think many people feel a female drummer needs their assistance and their opinion.
And these same people think a male drummer does not need their assistance or opinion.

It's crazy I know, but I'll bet that is what is happening here.

.
 
I don't mean to offend either, but half of this may be sexism. My spouse gets this treatment at work at times. Some males thinking that a woman ' needs to know this/that' and of course these men 'know everything' and tell her.

But are these others all male? Are they all drummers?

Honestly, If these were other drummers making such comment, I'd actually test their judgment. If not done already, I'd record myself/band and see what it sounds like 'out there' where they sit. Drums do sound different 'out there' off the bandstand, thus the need to always record on a little device, even rehearsals. If alls Ok, then ya they're full of BS...end of story.

To me, rolls are rolls, in jazz vs. rock or any other genre.
 
To me, rolls are rolls, in jazz vs. rock or any other genre.

I dunno man, have you ever tried to get a good dinner roll going on the kit? Doesn't work so well, regardless of genre.
 
I honestly hadn't really considered it being a female/age thing.... but I think you're probably right. I've recorded myself multiple times for critiquing my technique and the drums themselves.. I ask my bands and my worship team leader to tell me if they'd like me to do something different and if the drums sound good... all is good with them.. sooo.... Yuk! ... But I DO have a sense of humor... "dinner rolls"!!!! LOL~~~ good one! If I see the last guy that did it again, I'll make sure I have some to give him!
 
Musos never tell me things like that after gigs. Occasionally when I've posted videos online people have suggested that I could work on my left wrist. It's a fair point - my left wrist has all the suppleness of a Thunderbirds puppet.

In a way, being criticised for one thing is a compliment. There's a lot of things that can be criticised in a performance - time, tightness, dynamics, feel, cycbal choices, drum tone and tuning (esp snare), setup, note choices, mechanics of movement, listening/responsiveness, etc.

So if someone criticises just one thing abut your gig, then that implicitly suggests that they think you're going okay in the other areas. If a muso in the audience has a shopping list of grievances about your playing then it's unlikely they'd say anything, rather than suggesting possible improvements to one or two areas.

Martha, given the above, I'm not convinced the amount of "helpful" feedback you're receiving is due to gender. Maybe it's a combination of being a woman, an inexperienced musician, and operating in a worship environment?
 
Martha, given the above, I'm not convinced the amount of "helpful" feedback you're receiving is due to gender. Maybe it's a combination of being a woman, an inexperienced musician, and operating in a worship environment?

.... Oh! Leave her alone...

:)
 
There's a barely visible smiley there. :-D

Ms Martha (forgive me if I presume erroneously that Martha is your real name), I agree with the other commenters that sexism is likely playing a role. For that, I apologize. Mansplaining is never acceptable. I applaud you for daring to take up an overwhelmingly male musical pursuit. Drumming isn't easy in the first place, and being a woman in a male-dominated demographic is almost always awful for the woman.

I wish you every success! I have no solution other than a knee to the groin of the worst offenders. Though I suspect that doesn't exactly fit in with your Christian philosophy, I assure you it is remarkably effective. ;-)
 
maybe it's the level of your playing. people seem to give more help to beginner types then others. if you were killing it behind the drums no one would say boo.
 
Well, context is everything, but my first thought is that it could be some form of jealousy. Some people enjoy belittling others and undermining them, as if that makes them (the nasty people) appear better somehow. My rule of thumb for determining whether advice is intended to be helpful or not is whether the phrase "you should" is used: if it is, the alarm bells ring like mad.

I suggest you become accustomed to using the phrase "I don't want to." It pretty much puts paid to argument, and it comes in very handy in all aspects of life.
 
If you are out in the public, the public will respond. My suggestion is just to say, "I'm working on that," and smile. Maybe jealousy, maybe sexism (jealousy) maybe the comments are made after a night of drinking, who knows, but telling them you are working on your skills and moving on will quell any confrontation, and keep your blood pressure down.
 
Sounds like a mixture of alcohol, sexism, and attraction. Like they were attracted to you, but because they were drinking, and their filters were down, their underlying sexism spilled out.

I think some guys may have a problem saying to a gal that they admired her, so they play the neg card just to get talking.

Total guess though. You have to wonder if you were a guy, would they have even bothered commenting?
 
This is interesting.

My approach to feedback: good, an opportunity to learn something.
One approach is to just to say "Thanks, I'll take that on board".
I consider it and run it by people whose competence / opinion I respect.
Then decide if it's something I want to act on.

If multiple people mention the same thing independently, there is likely something there.

I try to leave gender out of skills and technique.
 
I've always found playing shows, that there are the general public, who really don't notice much, unless you really screw up in a song, some musicians that are happy to be out and supporting other bands, who don't say anything, and then there are some musicians in the back that will cut up anything you do, due to jealousy, or just being super critical. And most of those last category will talk a good game, but probably never play on stage themselves. lol.

Someone above mentioned to listen for if you get common criticisms from different people, then maybe there is an element of truth to it, that you may want to investigate on your own.
But always take everything with a grain of salt.

I learned a while ago, that if you are in the band, you draw a lot of attention to yourself. People will come and talk to you, and that's just part of being in a band. Put on your professional face and be polite and gracious, but don't take anything to heart. You could go back to the same club a week later, and not one person will talk to you, because you aren't in the band that day. It helps to keep you grounded. lol.

And there could be an element of you drawing extra attention from being female. It's uncommon enough that people would notice.
 
Another thought: IME, people who are genuinely trying to be helpful are usually aware that unasked-for advice is often unwelcome, so they go out of their way to make it as palatable as possible. I used to know somebody who was vastly knowledgeable in her area of expertise, who used to ask "Would you like me to show you an easier way to do that?" She made it easy to say Yes Please, but it was equally easy to say "No thanks, I'm used to doing it this way and I'm happy with it." Either way, she didn't get anybody's back up.

...Oh! ...Leave me alone.

:)

I don't have much choice, do I - you're never bloody here these days!
 
marthared:

I think this is happening to you mostly because you are a female drummer.
I think many people feel a female drummer needs their assistance and their opinion.
And these same people think a male drummer does not need their assistance or opinion.

It's crazy I know, but I'll bet that is what is happening here.

.

Just to add, I agree with Jim, Larry and other who said that there is likely an element of mansplaining in this...

I just think it's important how women react to this.
Having a hopefully objective view of my competence at various things, allows me to react differently. For example, at things I'm really competent at because I have a masters degree and over 10 years experience at it and published stuff, if someone mansplains stuff (or other women condescend), you can just calmly state your reasons for what your doing and soon they will realise they have underestimated you.

This is of course not the case with my drumming, where I have two years experience.
In terms of drumming, my instructor provides objective feedback. So if other people raise stuff I know I need to work on, that's cool and has nothing to do with me being a female...
 
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