Reggae_Mangle
Silver Member
Love.
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What I want to know is how you subverted the minimum word count. Ah, now I see
Love.
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Not sure where karma fit into my post, but you can think of it as "what goes around comes around" or "as you sow, so shall you reap". It's a simple concept. Indians believe in rebirth, being born after you die in a cycle that is intended to purify your soul. Karma plays a role in balancing that out.
After that, there's a heaven and hell too, much in the same way that Christianity portrays them. In that sense, and I'm espousing views that might seem radical to many Hindus, rebirth on earth is similar to the concept of purgatory.
As far as oppressive caste systems or social injustice, etc., that's the fallout of historical battles won and lost. With a good dose of religious wrong-doing to boot.
Of course, believing that such behaviour and ways of life are limited to India or the Far East is the result of long periods of indoctrination via the news and other information flows, to be blunt.
When I was young, I watched the movies about happy American families and saw picturesque suburban neighbourhoods and communal harmony. And I thought it was just like that.
No one lived in an apartment, there was no smell of urine in the streets and subways, everyone went to college.
I never knew that until the 60s, if a black man rode in a bus, he would be thrown off. Or that women were forced to sell their bodies for money and were then beaten up by a pimp that would take the majority of their earnings for himself and give them drugs instead. Or that politicians took kickbacks and sold out their nation in return for money from Chinese Communists and wealthy Arabs that could buy up Wall Street and make sure that the small investor always loses.
I mean, look at Linda Lovelace. That woman to this date keeps screaming about how she was exploited. I have no doubt in my mind she and her family suffered on account of Deep Throat, even as others made money and it became a part of "popular culture".
And if I have to touch upon religion, it disgusts me that children were abused by men of the cloth and then protected by their peers.
I suppose the danger in making statements like the one you quoted was that it would be misinterpreted. The caste system has been abolished. Social injustice has been abolished too, apparently. That they still persist (albeit on a much smaller scale) speaks volumes about the regard for "human rights" and "moral values" in this place. Much in the same way that poverty and hunger do in America.
In that respect, the US threw off the yoke of colonial oppression over 200 years ago. India did it about 65 years ago. Systematic plundering of resources and subjugation of people without regard have left it a poor nation. You've heard of Mahatma Gandhi? Then you'll know that he was shot dead, much in the way of Abraham Lincoln, a good man. Why? Because he suggested that the Congress Party (which rules India now, but was originally fought to fight for Independence), should be dissolved once freedom was achieved. He was against untouchability and other superstitious nonsense.
People want these social evils to persist because they can benefit from it. But people with brains know it is wrong and should be stopped.
But people with brains know it is wrong and should be stopped.
Karma is a vicious concept, used to reinforce repressive social systems. It's not just "what goes around comes around" or "you reap what you sow." It's also "you're poor and diseased because of wrongs you did in a previous life and I am in a position to exploit you because I was virtuous in a previous life." Kind of hard to argue with that reasoning!
Perhaps the caste system has been largely dismantled in a formal way. Societies can change like that. But the basic tenets of karma remain, ready for anyone to use to justify horrific repression of others. Most Westerners are oblivious to this because we get our understanding of karma largely from Western pop culture.
........ you can't take it with you, but hey hey, you're not going anywhere either haha
It's interesting to see how you've misinterpreted the workings of karma to construe it as something evil.
If I am rich and powerful and I wrong those that are weak, I will be served up a dish of karma to avenge my wrongdoings perhaps in this life, or perhaps in the next. There is always come-uppance for wrongs and just as likely reward for virtue, but not necessarily a timeframe.
If I fail to adhere to principles like dharma (virtuous living), I will no doubt be doomed to be reborn again and again, sometimes richer, sometimes poorer. After all, what does virtue have to do with how rich or poor people are? Some of the poor people I know are far more virtuous than the rich. And the opposite holds true as well.
AKA you can feel sorry for yourself, or you can pick yourself up and give it the old "college boy" try.
Thinking of it as a punishment system is just erroneous interpretation. In this case, the Western pop culture version is decidedly more accurate than your version.
I would shudder to try and explain Maya (illusion) with my skills. As in, it's all maya, baby, you can't take it with you, but hey hey, you're not going anywhere either haha
BF Skinner, behavioral psychologist, postulates in Beyond Freedom and Dignity, that free will choices are pre-determined by the interaction of the individual's environmental experiences and their unique genetic makeup.
It can be demonstrated through a process called operant conditioning.http://www.butler-bowdon.com/BF-Skinner-Beyond-Freedom-And-Dignity
It's interesting to see how you've misinterpreted the workings of karma to construe it as something evil.
If I am rich and powerful and I wrong those that are weak, I will be served up a dish of karma to avenge my wrongdoings perhaps in this life, or perhaps in the next. There is always come-uppance for wrongs and just as likely reward for virtue, but not necessarily a timeframe.
If I fail to adhere to principles like dharma (virtuous living), I will no doubt be doomed to be reborn again and again, sometimes richer, sometimes poorer. After all, what does virtue have to do with how rich or poor people are? Some of the poor people I know are far more virtuous than the rich. And the opposite holds true as well.
AKA you can feel sorry for yourself, or you can pick yourself up and give it the old "college boy" try.
Thinking of it as a punishment system is just erroneous interpretation. In this case, the Western pop culture version is decidedly more accurate than your version.
I would shudder to try and explain Maya (illusion) with my skills. As in, it's all maya, baby, you can't take it with you, but hey hey, you're not going anywhere either haha
It's interesting to see how you've misinterpreted the workings of karma to construe it as something evil.
How about if we construe karma as being something that's nothing more than a human invention?
...we dont die -as in end-. We evaporate and disintegrate into the atmosphere and the elements and reappear in another form which is loosely determined by the previous actions of this energy.
Karma is well represented in song.
Few of my favorite questions:
1. What about people born BEFORE 2000 years ago?
2. What about people born, lived, and died somewhere the 'word of god' had not reached (e.g. the Americas for about 1500 years)?
3. What about mentally deficient people or those who die too young and therefore are not physically capable of understanding the story?
Seems (according to some) all of these people should be burning in hell for all eternity, through no fault of their own. Hmm, something just doesn't seem right to me.
Brilliantos, Reggae!!
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That's not my interpretation of karma. In particular societies that practice it, the powerful use karma to reinforce unjust social orders, which I suppose is nothing new for people and religion. This probably sounds very startling to someone who only knows the Disneyfied concept of karma, but the powerful have long used fatalistic concepts like karma to justify their place over others.
Everyone believes they live a virtuous life and will look for ways to support that contention - even as they might ruthlessly exploit those under them - and religion will usually provide a basis for their justification.
How about if we construe karma as being something that's nothing more than a human invention?
It would be nice (or scary) to think of karma as real but my feeling is that the rights and wrongs in our little lives are of no consequence to the universe / God / whatever. It would be like talking about praiseworthy or blameworthy bacteria. Sure, the local bacteria affected by kind or egregious microbes might have an opinion but no one else cares
Still, there's obvious balancing going on in the universe - a pendulum swings back, the dry part of a sponge will absorb water from nearby saturated areas etc. I suppose it could apply to values too, given that values obviously exist and Yin/Yang seems to be a universal truth.
If karma exists then we'd better get our $#!% together, given that middle class humans are amongst the 0.0000000000001% of the most fortunate living things that have ever lived. Many creatures live in constant fear of predators, fear of not catching prey and generally die through being eaten alive or mangled. Here we are, calmly chatting on the net with almost zero threat to our lives.
So if you - one of the blessed ones - screw this life up you wouldn't want to think about the comeuppance. But don't let that worry you ... carry on ... no pressure lol
According to one of my peak experiences, the universe doesn't care a jot whether you're Adolph Hitler or Mahatma Gandhi - you have your little time in existence and then - floop! - back to the fold when you die (whatever "the fold" is). No harm, no foul. In cosmic terms we are like microbes that exist for less than the blink of an eye.
Whether that peak experience had any truth to it or was an illusion, I don't know, although it seems similar in nature to peak experiences others have described. Of course it's possible that we are wired to have particular types of illusions so that's not proof either, maybe just a little comforting