drummers who can't read music notation

Basic musical notation is the simplest written language there is. It opens the doors to knowledge, freedom and communication just like other written languages do.

It`s just a tool for communicating and storing ideas. If someone creates a dogmatic religion around written music from a certain period, that`s on them and what influenced that, nothing and nobody else.
 
My teacher thought it was important for me to learn how to read music - as i pretty much forget what i played after a single week.
My ear is pretty good, i can almost copy anything he plays just by ear, but it's easier to have it on paper aswell... Learn to read music - it's a tool, and a great one.
 
Classically trained musicians often have a problem with improvisation because they are so schooled in the "right" way to play, and generally only perform with written pieces, so they tend to play what is expected in any given situation.

Horses for courses I suppose.[/QUOTE]



How many classically trained musicians do you know? I'm guessing zero. Your statement is totally false.

As far as reading goes, you'll never get past the bar room if you can't.
 
Being able to read music is a tool you should have in your tool box if you really want to do this for a living.A few examples would be studio drummers,or wedding band drummers.Time is money in this business,and studio time is very expensive.The artist/producer who hired you is not going to sit around and wait for you to memorize a piece of music.Take a look at the wrecking crew.Hal Blane could not only read,but walk into a studio,and in just a few takes,create a drum track that not only would swing,but fit the tune perfectly.

Any good ..repeat...good wedding band,has not only a deep set list,but can sight read a piece of music on the spot.They carry hundreds of pieces of sheet music with them,either electronicly or hard copy.They have to be able to take requests and play just about anything on the spot.I have seen bands do this,and these guys get paid very good money,and the work all the time.Not once a month....twice a week and more sometimes.

Do I think its an essential requirement?Not really.plenty of good drummers can't read music.I think having a good ear is more important.I know two piano players who are both good players,but because neither one has an ear,they can't play a tune without sheet music in front of them.

So though its not essential,no doubt you will work more if you can read.

Steve B
 
johanisu said:
Bonzo could read music, I remember reading it in an interview.

Lenny White can't. Didn't know about Art, but my suspicions would be that he could, as he was a pianist before he was a drummer, as has been pointed out.

There is a rumour on the rumour mill that Rich could actually read music, just not sight read. For that he had another drum play through the chart for him first time. The story goes that Louie Bellson gave Rich reading lessons. They were great friends and Louie was the only man modest enough not to brag about giving the king of drummers lessons. I learnt this from a source who knew Louie fairly well, though don't quote me on it.

Music is my life and my goal is to learn as much as I can about it. For me reading is essential. Transcribing has proven an invaluable tool.

I feel that musically illiterate geniuses are the exceptional cases. They have/had great ears to make up for it. Buddy could hear a Big Band piece played once before playing it perfectly himself.
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Actually Lenny White can read and write musical notation and is in the process of writing a jazz opera.As far as playing piano,Neither Lennon or MvCartney could play piano.,and the keyboard player in a band that i was in could play his butt off on any keyboard you put in front of him,and he couldn't read a note.I'm talking Prog rock(Kieth Emerson) jazz,classical ..anything.He taught himself to play in 2 years by ear.

I do agree reading will make you a better all around drummer.but a good ear is important also.

Steve B
 
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I see reading as an essential factor. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to learn. The basics are easy. You can learn simple drum notation in a single day. Musical notation takes a bit longer, but still, the basics are very easy. The skill of reading either one is invaluable.

Art Blakey did indeed play piano, thus I find it hard to believe that he didn't know how to read.
 
tamadrm said:
Actually....Neither Lennon or MvCartney could play piano..
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Really? McCartney played piano on tons of Beatles and solo work, as did Lennon. :)

Let it Be
Imagine
Maybe I'm Amazed

Perhaps you meant that they could not read musical notation. But I know McCartney can. In the Beatles heyday maybe not, but he's done classical stuff since then.

Maybe it was Paul's double (the whole Paul is Dead thing fromthe late 60s...)
 
larryz said:
Really? McCartney played piano on tons of Beatles and solo work, as did Lennon. :)

Let it Be
Imagine
Maybe I'm Amazed

Perhaps you meant that they could not read musical notation. But I know McCartney can. In the Beatles heyday maybe not, but he's done classical stuff since then.

Maybe it was Paul's double (the whole Paul is Dead thing fromthe late 60s...)
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This is what I get for posting with 2 hours sleep.Yes they could indeed play piano,and Maca quite well in fact.What I meant to say was neither one of than could read music,and they played piano by ear only.

Steve B
 
I think there's a big advantage in reading music that gets too little credit: if you can read and write, you can "synthetically" manipulate what you play.

Here's what I mean: you play something, you write that down, and then you start modifying it on the chart.
Something like: "I wonder what this will sound like if I move this note 1/16th to the left".

You can come up with really innovative fills and grooves this way, and there's no way you could "invent" them playing by ear, without looking at the chart.

(Garibaldi gives great insights on this in Future Sounds).

P.S.

If you can read and write, you can also apply mathematics.
One day, I saw Donati play a single paradiddle with his left hand and left foot, while playing a double paradiddle with his right hand and right foot.
If you ask your friends, this sounds like the typical "impossible" thing to play.
However, I got curious, so I wrote down two separate charts for the single and the double paradiddle, and then applied least common multiple to merge the two charts in one.
Turned out it was not so hard to play that, just really boring (after you play it a couple of times, you get bored of its very unnatural sequence of coordinated strokes).
Notice that there's no way you can use your brain like "ok, I'm gonna play this stuff with my left hand and foot, while playing this other completely different stuff with my right hand and foot". You need to merge the two and play the sequence (this is the basis of advanced coordination, by the way).
 
I learned it, but I never really have to read music. It's good to be familiar with music notation in order to practice certain rudiments, but as far as application it all depends on what kind of music you play. As a rock drummer, I've never really needed to read music. No parts are so complicated that I can't figure it out by ear. But if I was a session drummer, a wedding band drummer, big band or jazz drummer, I think that would be essential to the job due to the fact that sight reading would be necessary at times.
 
tamadrm said:
This is what I get for posting with 2 hours sleep.Yes they could indeed play piano,and Maca quite well in fact.What I meant to say was neither one of than could read music,and they played piano by ear only.

Steve B
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Just having some fun with you Steve. (now get some zzzz's....)
 
8Mile said:
Reading music can only help you. There is absolutely no downside whatsoever to learning to read.
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100% agreed.

RE tamadrm - yes, being able to sight-read charts will open up a whole new gig stream to any drummer. for ex, if you can cover most styles & sight-read you can get an overseas / cruise ship gig pretty quick. the commitment part is the toughest decision -- http://www.musicianwages.com/musician-jobs/

to wit: i know this friggin' AMAZING bass / piano / guitar / singer in nashville who cannot sight read. at least once or twice a year i want to invite this guy to cover singing / funky guitar or soulful singing w/ one of the big bands i play with. he always bails. maybe i need to force the issue & shed the charts with him next time ?
 
First of all like to say that I find people that can sight read total gods because my brain just fries with a simple 4/4 that I didnt see before hand.

Also think that knowing a basic notation is a must for every drummer. If you get into playing certain rudiments with different hands/feet in weird times you need to write them down to know what goes were.
The Donati thing with single para with the feet and double with the hands is a perfect example. I dont believe that even the most gifted drummer can play that just by saying "ok, im gonna play this with my feet and a little of this with my hand".
 
bigd said:
Classically trained musicians often have a problem with improvisation because they are so schooled in the "right" way to play, and generally only perform with written pieces, so they tend to play what is expected in any given situation.

Horses for courses I suppose.
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How many classically trained musicians do you know? I'm guessing zero. Your statement is totally false.

As far as reading goes, you'll never get past the bar room if you can't.[/QUOTE]


Well I know at least four very well and a few others socially so I can vouch for the statement.
One of my best friends plays sax to grade 8 and plays in three bands. Swing/jazz and pop rock, but he wont play in any of them without his music.

Also I have drummed in lots of fairly big venues and I have never had a lesson, nor can I read drum notation. Im not saying its big or clever, but it worked for me over the last 35 years. It proves it is possible to get past the bar room without reading. Not saying its right, only that its possible.
 
Have to post my .02 here-

Been playing now for about a year by ear alone trying to learn and memorize by this device only. I found that I do have a very good ear and can quickly pick up things as long as I can clearly hear it. If I'm listening to a song and can't hear a fill or ride pattern then I'm lost. I'm slowly learning how to both read and write music (drum notation) with the help of my wife.

I see it this way- If I could read well, there isn't anything that I can't play. Right now I feel completely limited to playing only what I can make up and memorize. As I get better and better at reading, I can see the notes on the staff and actually hear them. This is helping me understand music in general and specifically the percussion structure of a song. It helps me understand the sound and feel of some of my favorite music.

Now, I'm 37 and will most likely never play in a band, make money from my music or make it in anyway. However I want to understand not only what I'm playing and why it sounds the way it does, but be able to analyze and understand what others are playing. Why does Moby Dick sound that way? Why am I obsessed with YYZ and Time Check?

I don't want to just play them (long, long way off!)but understand why they have that great sound. Is it absolutely essential if you are a prodigy or genius? No. But for the rest of us schmucks without the innate genius of Joe, Buddy, Neil and Vinnie, I believe it is a very good thing. When I have my own little drummer boy, he will learn how to read.

I feel limited in my musicality because I can't read well yet. It is a limitation for me.
 
Billy Boy said:
i'm new to this board and am not sure if this has been a topic that has been discussed before, but... i'm wondering which drummers do not read music. some that i know of include;

buddy rich
art blakey
dennis chambers

also, what are your thoughts on the importance of reading vs learning by ear/feel? thanks!
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DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.
I can’t really read sheet music unless it’s super easy even stuff that’s AC/DC simple can challenge me to play it it takes a very long time note for note.
From what I saw below if BONZO AND MOON DIDNT READ OR BUDDY RICH (as he’s perhaps the worlds greatest drummer in history in my eyes) then who’s to say you need to read it.
 
arizona.drummer said:
DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.
I can’t really read sheet music unless it’s super easy even stuff that’s AC/DC simple can challenge me to play it it takes a very long time note for note.
From what I saw below if BONZO AND MOON DIDNT READ OR BUDDY RICH (as he’s perhaps the worlds greatest drummer in history in my eyes) then who’s to say you need to read it.
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Welcome to DW mate… unfortunately @Billy Boy hasn’t been here since 2012 (you can see from the dates this is an old thread) so don’t expect him to reply… :) (y)
 
I learned most of the basic rudiments and drum notation. After that, I was able to teach myself songs quite quickly.
 
homar_alex said:
Well, that's strange, as far as I know, Art used to play piano a lot before drumming... Are you sure of him?
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I heard Art say he didnt know written music in an interview but I'll be damned if I can link it here sorry.
But I never knew he also played piano, so MAYBE I'm confusing him with another drummer.

Billy Boy said:
i'm new to this board and am not sure if this has been a topic that has been discussed before, but... i'm wondering which drummers do not read music. some that i know of include;

buddy rich
art blakey
dennis chambers

also, what are your thoughts on the importance of reading vs learning by ear/feel? thanks!
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Anyone who tells you "don't learn _______ because it's a waste of time" is someone you should avoid drum advice from. Just my 2 cents. (and this is coming from a drummer who only used my reading chops in Big Band settings. I'm really a hair metal drummer)

But to answer your OP question...drummers who haven't already been mentioned.....
Steven Adler
Joey Kramer
John Bonham
I recently heard Neil Peart didnt have formal drum lessons until he was like in his 40's....I'm sure a Rush nut will correct me on this hahah
Ringo Starr maybe
Charlie Watts maybe
Lars Ulrich for sure
Charlie Benante
the list goes on and on but you should still learn how to read drum notation, or proper notation if you want to play keyboard instruments or any pitched instrument really. Again...my 2 cents.
 
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